G?ring On His Relations With Hitler From Our Special Correspondent NUREMBERG, MARCHt 14 For more than five hours to-day Her- mann G6ring, hunched forward in the witness-box and given only an infrequent lead by .his counsel, adroitly threaded his way across the vast background of infamy set in the Nuremberg indictment. It would not be accurate to say that he domi- nated the court, which allowed him com- plete freedom of expression; but there is no denying that, with his life at stake, he is making the most remarkable speech of his career. His audience is the world, and there is an astute calculation behind every,word he utters. *At times one has the impression that his evidence is addressed as much to the German people as to his judges. G6ring, after all, is thle last of the big men of Nazi Germany still capable of passing on a message to the masses who followed him. With specious argument and deft side-stepping he is ready to justify everything that went into the making of an all-powerful Greater Reich, and if aggressive war became one of the Nazi instruments there was always the " menace " of Soviet Russia looming in the east. One expects that the Soviet theme will rise to a crescendo befo,e the defence is finished: to-day Goiring used the soft pedal with no more than a few sly alttisions to Russian pre- parations. It was ridiculous, he protested, to think that the Nazi lefders conspired for decades ahead: war came, as it always did, from the grouping of the Powers. It was sometimes difficult, listening td his bland reasoning, to remember that there had been a war, or that millions of people had died in German concentration camps. - DISARMING FRANKNESS Goring's fellow-prisoners; seated in the dock like jurors, lollowed him with rapt attention, and some of them, notably Rudolf Hess, seemed to be carried away by his eloquence. There are no flourishes about Ghring in the box, no purple patches or heated voice: he has accurately assessed the temper of the court. Nothing could be more disarminglv frank than his full acceptance of.-responsibility for hisl actions, for building up the Luitwafle, for the I fining of the Jews, and for the annexation of Austria. Nothing must besmirch the name of Hitler, but he wvas careful to imply that the Fuhrer insisted on complete freedom of de- cision, and that no one, after all, could oppose him. Of course the Nazis wvere prepared to disc all means, even illegal means, to come to power. A revolution, he maintaincd, was illegal only until it succeeded, though after his incarcera- tion Hitler had insisted that only legal methods should be tised in gaining office, and Hinden- burg had approved hIis decrees. The trade tinions wvere disbanded and turned into the German labour front to restore real liberty to the worker, the Nazis couild not possibly have the unions led by their political opponents, and GCring had never understood a frecdom that permitted strikes and lock-outs ivhich inter- fered witih man's inherent right to work. Goring allowed himself a little gentle sarcasm. The members of the Tribunal, whose countries owned three-quarters of the world. might have a different understanding of Lebensraou,n from the Germans. For him it was " a proper proportion " for the nourishiment, growth, and living standards of the German people. The Ffliner Pri-zip. moreover, might not be suited to other countries. ROHM A NASTY FELLOW Democracy came to Germany when thc nation was at rock bottom: the authority was with the masses and responsibility with the leaders. Under the leadership principle the authority was at the top working downwards, and the responsibility at the bottom vorking upwards. Certainly all foreign Governments had recognized the Hitler regime and the entire diplomatic corps came to the Nuremberg rallies. Who was Rohm ? He and his followers, drawn from elements unsaddled by the Nazis. were nasty fellows who were plotting a couip dXEoat. Anyway the number of the victims had been grossly exaggerated. ' No more than 76 people were shot, though they deeply regretted that Sleicher and his wife were among them. As for the Jews, soldiers returning froni the last war had found them flaunting themselves. holding all the key positions in business and industry, and they had certainly said and written things about the Nazis as bad as the Nazis had said about them. Thc prisoner said that he greatly resented the intdrference of Goebbels. which inspired thc anti-Jewish riots of November, 1938. for as Commissioner for the Four-Year Plan he needed evcry available piece of scrap metal. The Nazis merely proposed to excltide all Jews from politics and the leadership of the State, and the Nuremberg laws had been passed to make stire who were Jcvs. HITLER AND CHURCHES At the beginning, he went on, Hitler's atti- tude towards the chtirchies had been a generous one; even he, Goring, though not a churchgoer, had gone to church to set an example in his position as the first clergyman of Prussia. But they could not have priests and clergy carrying politics into the pulpit, and perhaps Himmler. the mystic, had exces- sive ideas on the subject. It was inevitable that as the war went on morc clergy should find their way into the concentration camps, for it happened in the occupied counties that ' they were often nationalists. Goring main- tained, in short, that any and every measurc was justified in creatinm and consolidating the Nazi State. His evidence then came to more immediate matters. All th'e old reasons were given for leaving the disarmament conference and the League of Nations. No one wanted disarma- ment of all the Powers more than Hitler, but in view of the repeated violations of treaties by other States he was forced to rearm for the security of the Reich. Tihe prisoner was in his most expansive vein in describing the development of the Ltiftrafle. As early as 1933 he had raised civil air traflic above actual needs in order to train as many pilots as possible, for he was aware at the beginning that security could not be achieved without adequate protection in the air. At first he tlloughit a defensive fighter force would stiffice, btit latEcr he sawv the folly of an air force without bombers to attack enemy airfields and war industry. SPANISH CIVIL WAR In 1935 he urged Hitler to declare openly to the world that Germany was building an a;r force. They confined themselves to their s risky " air force until he heard of the discussions in England and feverish prepara- tions in Russia. The prisoner admitted that he had pressed Hitler to aid Franco at all costs in the Spanish civil war, if only as a means of testing his aircraft and pilots. As supreme commandcr of the Lufwt-afje there was nothing he had left utndone for its development. He saw Russia as Germany's potential enemy, though England, France, and Italy had to be thought about, and if he did not go in for four-engine bombers it was because he was still short of altiminiuim. But he imptessed on his experts his desire to have a bomber capable of flying loaded to America and back in case the United States entered the wvar, and before the outbreak of hostilities they were studyinlg jet-propelled aircraft. There seemed to be a contradiction in ihe prisoner's subsequent statement that his purpose under the Fotir-Year Plan was not so much to prepare for aggressive war as to secure Germany against any natural crisis or a blockade. Going over the ominous land- marks that preceded the war G&ring protested that, confronted by the pact of assistancee between France and the Soviets, the Germans had reoccupied the Rhineland in order toI ensure the security of the State. If they bad had aggressive designs in the west, would they have undertaken the enormous expense of constructing the west wall ? The most interesting aspect of Gdring's detailed testimony concerning the Anschluss u%as his claim that his responsibility excceded even the Fiihrer's. whose objections, :t seemed, he had overridden on a number of points. Hitler, for instance. would have been content if Austria had been a separate Nazi State with himself as its nominal head, a solu- tion which Goring found intolerable. He was out for ihe complete union of the two brother nations, and if the prosecution talked of aggression against Austria he could aEsure them that not bombs but only flowers were droppedl. The Anschluss had been the overwhelming desire of the majority of Austrians since the collapse of the Haipsburg empire, but its realization had been hampered for a long time by the opposition of Italy, who had mustered troops on the Brenner after the Dollfuss incident. \Vhen Italv became involved in Ethiopia. Britain and France hinted that they would take a differenit view of the Anschluss if Germany joined in sanctions, but the prisoncr could obtain no definite assurances on the point, and in the end he decided that it was more opportune to exclude Italy as an opponent by not adopting sanctions against her. THE PROPOSED PLEBISCITE Goring, with unconscious irony, described the proposed Schtuschnigg plebiscite as a provocation and a breach of the Berchtes- gaden agreement which Germany could not tolerate. I-le Nas in the Chancery with Hitilcr when news arrived that it had been called off, and he had a feeling that now was the moment to bring about a final soltition. The court had heard of his telephone conversations wvith Vienna. Of course, he said with the utmost candour, lie had inspired the message from Seyss-Inquart calling for German troops. If he hald denied it during his talk with Ribben- ttop in London it was because he knew they vere overheard on the English side, and why should he be an exception to diplomatic privilege ? It was Hitler who had given the order for the troops to march into Austria, ostensibly for the pacification of the country. This was the second point of difference with Gorinc who wished them to march under thc banner of the greater Reich in order to forestall any move from the outside. Althouigl tic had 1. worked " on Mussolini-the phraseology came naturally-his attitude was still uncer- tain; the H'tingarians talked too much, and the Yugoslavs, with their eves on Carinthia, haid been told that they wvere crazy. The prisoner spoke of his visit to a ball of the Aero Club in Berlin at this timc, and of his two-hiotir talk with the British Ambas- sador. It was herc that he gave his famous w1 word of honour " to the Czech Ambassador. which rlie prosecution now accuses him of breaking. I lie prisoner declared that he wvas grateful for the opportunity of aflirming that his word extended only to an assurance that Czechoslovakia had nothing to fear fr-om the events immediately concerning Austria. With the Stideten problem still to be settled howv could lie have gori'e farther than that ? Goring was no less glib in explaining the interview in Berlin with President Hacha vhich preceded the swallowing tip of all Czechoslovakia. After thc occupation of the Sudeten zones the troops mobilized in readi- ness for tle " grecn plan " were dispersed, but the situation remained dangerous because of Russia's attittide. He had gone off to the Riviera and tit Athe beginning of March a couricr arrived with a letter from the Fuhrer saying that Czech developments had become intolerable. At San Remo lie had niet a nunlber of Englishmen and recognized that they were " satisfied witlh Munich, but that another incident would try their patience too far. So lie sent an answer to Hitler saying that the occupation of Czecho- slovakia would probably mean a decisivc loss of prestige for the British Prime Minister and the intervettion of Churchiill. whose attitude to Gemiany wias vell known by the Fiuhirer. CZECH AERODROMES Czechioslovatkia couldl be irremediablv tied to thc Reich by economic factors. but when he arrived back in Berlin he found that Hitler was convinced that some Czech acrodromes wcrc occupied by Russian missions and that lie was determined to eliminate the threat. Griing admitted that at the Hacha con- ference he told the President that he was sorry that he had to bomb beautiful Prague-not. of course, that hc had any intention of doing so. And so Hacha got on the telephone and the next day the troops marched in. It was quitc natural that the economic capacity of a con- quered State, especially the potential of the Skoda works, should pass to the Reich. Gbring had an expression of injured innocence in turning to the accusations of the prosecution that in preparing the " green plan " for Czechioslovakia the German High Command had discussed. the possibility of assassinating their ambassador in Prague in order to create a suitable excuse for attack. Suchi a contingency, hb said, was quite possible. buit in the existing state of tension thev had to be prepared for the murder of the German Ambassador not by themselves but by the Czechs. Ilow could thc Germans think of murdering their own ambassador? As for Hitler's " last will and testamncit," another damning document put in bv thc prosecution regarding the exposition of the Fiihrer's views as early as 1937. Goring com- plained that, thouglh this in some respects Was n typical Hitler conference, the notes prepared by his cIief adjutant were inaccurate in manv important details. There had been no adequate relief of stenographiers. Hc described how Hitler hatd been prevented by bad weather from attacking in the west in the autumn of 1939, and, putting in a word for the acctised High Command, he explained the Fiihrer's attitude to his commanders when he called them together on the eve of a campaign. NO GENERAL ASKED No general was ever asked for his opinion. To say, i cin AiFiilhrer, I think you arc wrong, I cannot agree," would hiave been impossible. The general wvould not have been shot. but, said Gbring, he wvoild have feared for his sanity. ' Perhaps," saiid tlie prisoner suavely. lthat is the wvay to avoid futuLrIe wars-to ask every general and soldier whether he wvants to go homc." At the right tilc commanders could express their view's on tactics, but Nvhether they were to march through a neutral State was thc buisiness of the political leaders. His attitude towards Qtuisling, whom he had met only oilice. was that if they were going to give him financial support theey might as wvell have done it in a big way. There was no point in being petty in such matters. His only objectioni to the Nowvegian campaign, whichi he had welcomed for the air hases it gave them from which to attack Britain. was that he had not been adequately informed of the operational plan. They had learned later from captured documents of the British and Ftench intentions of occupying Norway and under guise of giving help to Finland of cut- ting off Germany's supply of war supplies, but he had rcpeatedly assutred Hitlcr that he had nothiing to fear from Swecder's neutrality. Goring had not concluded his main evidence when the court adjotirned. GORING ON HIS RELATIONS WITH HITLER DIFFERENCES OVER AUSTRIA